Worst Automotive Turkeys of 2004

Question:

> >  Never had a problem with any of > them.  I always raise the tire pressure from suggested 26 psi to 40++ psi > 40++??!  Well I guess fate really does protect small children and fools. >   Though I sure as hell don’t want to be in your vicinity when your > overinflated tires blow.

Under inflated tires are the ones that blow out due to flexing the sidewalls.  I have never had a blowout (except due to track debris or suspension failure) in the millions of miles that I have driven… some of them way over 100 mph… both on track and off.

Response:

If you say so, I guess   mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Every day?  You must therefore see a LOT of cars rolled over as > well, since the same thing happens with cars as SUV’s, they > slide…… unless some other force acts > upon the vehicle during the slide that would cause any vehicle to > roll over.  ’Rollover’ is a catch word for the shark lawyers and > the environuts. The facts are that years of statistical evidence > shows that slightly less than 8% of ALL vehicles sold in the US > will ever be involved, in its lifetime, in a accident sufficient > to deploy the SRS.  Less than 2% of those are involved in a > rollover..  Statistically you are twice as likely to be hit by > lightning as involved in a roll over accident.    ;) > mike hunt > > > The fruth is, in the real world very few vehicles ever > > > ‘rollover.’ If the height of a vehicle was the cause of vehicle > > > rollovers one would see one hell of a lot of six wheel trucks > > > rolledover.  The roll over myth is foisted by the shark lawyer to > > > sue and the environuts effort to get people to stop buying the > > > vehicle they want.  It takes some extreme forces or and object to > > > elevate the side of a vehicle to a point it will roll over rather > > > than fall back on its wheels.  Watch all the SUV’s that you see > > > spin in circles in chases shown in movies and on TV that never > > > rollover. To get any vehicle to turn over the stunt people need > > > to run them up ramps four of five feet high. > > > mike hunt > > Hmmm… > > Visit Houston sometime. > > At least one or two suv’s rollover every day on the freeway. > > I see them going and coming from work or see/hear about them on the news. > > I don’t know how many I don’t see or don’t make the news. > > It is so common here that few people pay attention any more unless > > someone dies. > > Last summer I had the opportunity to help extricate a dead woman with a > > crushed head out of a rolled over Explorer. > > Also, on average, one 18 wheeler jack-knifes or rolls over everyday > > on the freeway.  On average, one 18 wheel tanker flips and explodes each > > week on the freeway – usually taking out a section of roadway in the process. > > I agree with your observations about trucks though. > > I can’t remember ever seeing a rolled over 6 or 10 wheeler. > > Stiff suspension makes them slide. > I rarely see cars rolled over. > Try doing a quick half (or better) steering wheel rotation > and then back again in the other direction at 60 mph in a suv. > My Vette always spun out.  I don’t want to try it in my Grand Am.

Response:

> If you say so, but the records of the NHTSA indicate > otherwise.    ;)

Then post your figures, instead of just hinting at them. — E-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c’s and a’s in my e-mail address to reply.

Response:

> I rarely see cars rolled over. > Try doing a quick half (or better) steering wheel rotation > and then back again in the other direction at 60 mph in a suv. > My Vette always spun out.  I don’t want to try it in my Grand Am.

I HAD to do it once in an ‘02 Grand Am.  Recovered quite well, and the deer in my way AND my insurance company were probably quite thankful for it. — E-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c’s and a’s in my e-mail address to reply.

Response:

One should be careful not to run into something else in a effort to avoid an animal.  Collisions with an animal are covered by ones comprehensive coverage, which is not considered an ‘at fault’ accident and if purchased properly has a low or zero deductible.  On the other hand if in avoiding an animal one strikes another vehicle, the loss is covered under ones collision coverage which generally has a much higher deductible and it is considered an ‘at fault’ accident that effects ones premium rate.  Hitting an animal is generally less dangerous than hitting another car head on mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I rarely see cars rolled over. > Try doing a quick half (or better) steering wheel rotation > and then back again in the other direction at 60 mph in a suv. > My Vette always spun out.  I don’t want to try it in my Grand Am. > I HAD to do it once in an ‘02 Grand Am.  Recovered quite well, and the > deer in my way AND my insurance company were probably quite thankful for it. > — > E-mail fudged to thwart spammers. > Transpose the c’s and a’s in my e-mail address to reply.

Response:

> One should be careful not to run into something else in a effort > to avoid an animal.

There’s a difference between running into something and swerving into a clear lane of traffic to miss something. — E-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c’s and a’s in my e-mail address to reply.

Response:

Gee, why didn’t I think of that    ;) mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> One should be careful not to run into something else in a effort > to avoid an animal. > There’s a difference between running into something and swerving into a > clear lane of traffic to miss something. > — > E-mail fudged to thwart spammers. > Transpose the c’s and a’s in my e-mail address to reply.

Response:

>  Never had a problem with any of > them.  I always raise the tire pressure from suggested 26 psi to 40++ psi

40++??!  Well I guess fate really does protect small children and fools.   Though I sure as hell don’t want to be in your vicinity when your overinflated tires blow. — E-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c’s and a’s in my e-mail address to reply.

Response:

>>It’s just a guess on my part, but I bet the vast majority of the roll >over drivers barely know how to drive and have no comprehension of their >vehicles’ control attributes.  In the last year I have rented 10 suv’s >and put at least 1000 miles on each one.  Never had a problem with any of >them.  I always raise the tire pressure from suggested 26 psi to 40++ psi >and do slow speed slaloms before starting my trip. >Why 40 PSI? Doesn’t that increase the chance of a blowout at high speed due >to the higher pressure inside the tire working against you when you corner, >go over a bump, or brake?

40 PSI isn’t likely increase the risk of blowouts at the speed limit. OTOH….  It will greatly reduce one’s traction thereby limiting the liklihood of a traction induced rollover.   If you’ve ever seen an advanced driving school high speed "reverse into drive" direction change induced roll over you’ll know what I mean. But as the other poster’s have stated.  Roll-over accident’s are rare enough for a competent driver not to be concerned.  Just don’t let your learner driver try high speed maneuver in an old Explorer with under inflated tires.

Response:

If you say so, but the records of the NHTSA indicate otherwise.    ;) mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The fruth is, in the real world very few vehicles ever > ‘rollover.’ If the height of a vehicle was the cause of vehicle > rollovers one would see one hell of a lot of six wheel trucks > rolledover. > Well, where I live, there have been at least two 18-wheeler rollovers in > the past month that have shut down the highway just off the neighborhood > I live in.  And the alternate highway?  4 rollovers in the past month, > in which everything from coins from an armored car to bed matresses to > LIVE CHICKENS to cake mix (which we also learned is actually quite > flammable and set an entire row of toll booths aflame) hit the pavement. > Rollovers are more common than you think. > — > E-mail fudged to thwart spammers. > Transpose the c’s and a’s in my e-mail address to reply.

Response:

> >It’s just a guess on my part, but I bet the vast majority of the roll > over drivers barely know how to drive and have no comprehension of their > vehicles’ control attributes.  In the last year I have rented 10 suv’s > and put at least 1000 miles on each one.  Never had a problem with any of > them.  I always raise the tire pressure from suggested 26 psi to 40++ psi > and do slow speed slaloms before starting my trip. > Why 40 PSI? Doesn’t that increase the chance of a blowout at high speed due > to the higher pressure inside the tire working against you when you corner, > go over a bump, or brake?

Oh. I should have mentioned that the vehicles are loaded with about 1000 pounds of tools, parts, luggage, and me.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Every day?  You must therefore see a LOT of cars rolled over as > well, since the same thing happens with cars as SUV’s, they > slide…… unless some other force acts > upon the vehicle during the slide that would cause any vehicle to > roll over.  ’Rollover’ is a catch word for the shark lawyers and > the environuts. The facts are that years of statistical evidence > shows that slightly less than 8% of ALL vehicles sold in the US > will ever be involved, in its lifetime, in a accident sufficient > to deploy the SRS.  Less than 2% of those are involved in a > rollover..  Statistically you are twice as likely to be hit by > lightning as involved in a roll over accident.    ;) > mike hunt > > The fruth is, in the real world very few vehicles ever > > ‘rollover.’ If the height of a vehicle was the cause of vehicle > > rollovers one would see one hell of a lot of six wheel trucks > > rolledover.  The roll over myth is foisted by the shark lawyer to > > sue and the environuts effort to get people to stop buying the > > vehicle they want.  It takes some extreme forces or and object to > > elevate the side of a vehicle to a point it will roll over rather > > than fall back on its wheels.  Watch all the SUV’s that you see > > spin in circles in chases shown in movies and on TV that never > > rollover. To get any vehicle to turn over the stunt people need > > to run them up ramps four of five feet high. > > mike hunt > Hmmm… > Visit Houston sometime. > At least one or two suv’s rollover every day on the freeway. > I see them going and coming from work or see/hear about them on the news. > I don’t know how many I don’t see or don’t make the news. > It is so common here that few people pay attention any more unless > someone dies. > Last summer I had the opportunity to help extricate a dead woman with a > crushed head out of a rolled over Explorer. > Also, on average, one 18 wheeler jack-knifes or rolls over everyday > on the freeway.  On average, one 18 wheel tanker flips and explodes each > week on the freeway – usually taking out a section of roadway in the process. > I agree with your observations about trucks though. > I can’t remember ever seeing a rolled over 6 or 10 wheeler. > Stiff suspension makes them slide.

I rarely see cars rolled over. Try doing a quick half (or better) steering wheel rotation and then back again in the other direction at 60 mph in a suv. My Vette always spun out.  I don’t want to try it in my Grand Am.

Response:

> The fruth is, in the real world very few vehicles ever > ‘rollover.’ If the height of a vehicle was the cause of vehicle > rollovers one would see one hell of a lot of six wheel trucks > rolledover.  

Well, where I live, there have been at least two 18-wheeler rollovers in the past month that have shut down the highway just off the neighborhood I live in.  And the alternate highway?  4 rollovers in the past month, in which everything from coins from an armored car to bed matresses to LIVE CHICKENS to cake mix (which we also learned is actually quite flammable and set an entire row of toll booths aflame) hit the pavement. Rollovers are more common than you think. — E-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c’s and a’s in my e-mail address to reply.

Response:

>It’s just a guess on my part, but I bet the vast majority of the roll

over drivers barely know how to drive and have no comprehension of their vehicles’ control attributes.  In the last year I have rented 10 suv’s and put at least 1000 miles on each one.  Never had a problem with any of them.  I always raise the tire pressure from suggested 26 psi to 40++ psi and do slow speed slaloms before starting my trip. Why 40 PSI? Doesn’t that increase the chance of a blowout at high speed due to the higher pressure inside the tire working against you when you corner, go over a bump, or brake?

Response:

Every day?  You must therefore see a LOT of cars rolled over as well, since the same thing happens with cars as SUV’s, they slide…… unless some other force acts upon the vehicle during the slide that would cause any vehicle to roll over.  ’Rollover’ is a catch word for the shark lawyers and the environuts. The facts are that years of statistical evidence shows that slightly less than 8% of ALL vehicles sold in the US will ever be involved, in its lifetime, in a accident sufficient to deploy the SRS.  Less than 2% of those are involved in a rollover..  Statistically you are twice as likely to be hit by lightning as involved in a roll over accident.    ;) mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The fruth is, in the real world very few vehicles ever > ‘rollover.’ If the height of a vehicle was the cause of vehicle > rollovers one would see one hell of a lot of six wheel trucks > rolledover.  The roll over myth is foisted by the shark lawyer to > sue and the environuts effort to get people to stop buying the > vehicle they want.  It takes some extreme forces or and object to > elevate the side of a vehicle to a point it will roll over rather > than fall back on its wheels.  Watch all the SUV’s that you see > spin in circles in chases shown in movies and on TV that never > rollover. To get any vehicle to turn over the stunt people need > to run them up ramps four of five feet high. > mike hunt > Hmmm… > Visit Houston sometime. > At least one or two suv’s rollover every day on the freeway. > I see them going and coming from work or see/hear about them on the news. > I don’t know how many I don’t see or don’t make the news. > It is so common here that few people pay attention any more unless > someone dies. > Last summer I had the opportunity to help extricate a dead woman with a > crushed head out of a rolled over Explorer. > Also, on average, one 18 wheeler jack-knifes or rolls over everyday > on the freeway.  On average, one 18 wheel tanker flips and explodes each > week on the freeway – usually taking out a section of roadway in the process. > I agree with your observations about trucks though. > I can’t remember ever seeing a rolled over 6 or 10 wheeler. > Stiff suspension makes them slide.

Response:

oh yes 18 wheeler and jack knife what fun that is, that sounds alot like swift truckers ha. yeah i admit i had a trailer start to come around and bend only thing you can do is hold on and pray. but people have to remember to drive more safe and think fast. if you travel alot you see some stupid idiots out there

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >The fruth is, in the real world very few vehicles ever >’rollover.’ If the height of a vehicle was the cause of vehicle >rollovers one would see one hell of a lot of six wheel trucks >rolledover.  The roll over myth is foisted by the shark lawyer to >sue and the environuts effort to get people to stop buying the >vehicle they want.  It takes some extreme forces or and object to >elevate the side of a vehicle to a point it will roll over rather >than fall back on its wheels.  Watch all the SUV’s that you see >spin in circles in chases shown in movies and on TV that never >rollover. To get any vehicle to turn over the stunt people need >to run them up ramps four of five feet high. >mike hunt

In the Northeast Pennsylvania, it seemed every time there was a bit of bad weather, the next days newspaper would have at least one; "SUV left the road at high rate of speed…." <rj>

Response:

Here oare some of my personal observations from 20 years in fire/rescue: (These concern single vehicle rollovers only with no outside influences) Full-size vans are more prone to roll over than SUV’s. SUV’s are more prone to roll than large cars (Chevy Caprices, Lincoln Towncars and the like). 4wd SUV’s are more prone to roll over than 2wd SUV’s. Smaller cars are more prone to roll over than larger cars. Empty 2wd (not lifted or with larger tires) pick-ups have about the same tendency to roll over that larger cars do. It’s not only the overall height, although that is one factor.  I find the largest factors in single-vehicle rollovers not having to do with operator error or equipment malfunction involves the overall weight of the vehicle versus the track width of the vehicle.  The Toyota Echo and Matrix, and the Ford Focus are all lightweight cars with narrow tracks and significant height vs. width ratios.  All of these are very prone to rollovers. Speaking from personal experience, it’s hard to get a Towncar or full size 2wd pickup truck to roll over even using a forklift! Cheers – Jonathan — Jonathan A. Race Lieutenant, EMS Supervisor Orange County (FL) Fire Rescue Department (This message may contain personal opinions and/or information not related to my employment or employer)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The fruth is, in the real world very few vehicles ever > ‘rollover.’ If the height of a vehicle was the cause of vehicle > rollovers one would see one hell of a lot of six wheel trucks > rolledover.  The roll over myth is foisted by the shark lawyer to > sue and the environuts effort to get people to stop buying the > vehicle they want.  It takes some extreme forces or and object to > elevate the side of a vehicle to a point it will roll over rather > than fall back on its wheels.  Watch all the SUV’s that you see > spin in circles in chases shown in movies and on TV that never > rollover. To get any vehicle to turn over the stunt people need > to run them up ramps four of five feet high. > mike hunt > Automotive turkeys of 2004 > The Ford Explorer Sport Trac was given the highest probability of roll > over for a sport utility vehicle by the National Highway Traffic Safety > Commission.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hmmm… > Visit Houston sometime. > At least one or two suv’s rollover every day on the freeway. > I see them going and coming from work or see/hear about them on the news. > I don’t know how many I don’t see or don’t make the news. > It is so common here that few people pay attention any more unless > someone dies. > Last summer I had the opportunity to help extricate a dead woman with a > crushed head out of a rolled over Explorer. > Also, on average, one 18 wheeler jack-knifes or rolls over everyday > on the freeway.  On average, one 18 wheel tanker flips and explodes each > week on the freeway – usually taking out a section of roadway in the > process. > I agree with your observations about trucks though. > I can’t remember ever seeing a rolled over 6 or 10 wheeler. > Stiff suspension makes them slide. > How much of it is that people don’t know how to control the vehicle? I could > see it happening much easier if someone made a swerve to miss something then > sharply swerving back. I’ve heard that some of the problem with the > Explorers and their rollovers were that the tires blew and people > immediately hit the brakes and went over to the side of the road. > Here in Milwaukee I don’t think I’ve ever seen a rollover, even in the > winter months. I believe that semi accidents here are more common then > rollovers too, but I’m not positive. > I’ve done donuts in a Blazer (I think it has a 2 star rollover rating) and I > felt the body shift a little but nothing that would stop me from doing it > again. Just like in a Caprice.

It’s just a guess on my part, but I bet the vast majority of the roll over drivers barely know how to drive and have no comprehension of their vehicles’ control attributes.  In the last year I have rented 10 suv’s and put at least 1000 miles on each one.  Never had a problem with any of them.  I always raise the tire pressure from suggested 26 psi to 40++ psi and do slow speed slaloms before starting my trip.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Hmmm… >> Visit Houston sometime. >> At least one or two suv’s rollover every day on the freeway. >> I see them going and coming from work or see/hear about them on the >> news. I don’t know how many I don’t see or don’t make the news. >> It is so common here that few people pay attention any more unless >> someone dies. >> Last summer I had the opportunity to help extricate a dead woman with a >> crushed head out of a rolled over Explorer. >> Also, on average, one 18 wheeler jack-knifes or rolls over everyday >> on the freeway.  On average, one 18 wheel tanker flips and explodes each >> week on the freeway – usually taking out a section of roadway in the >> process. >> I agree with your observations about trucks though. >> I can’t remember ever seeing a rolled over 6 or 10 wheeler. >> Stiff suspension makes them slide. >How much of it is that people don’t know how to control the vehicle? I >could see it happening much easier if someone made a swerve to miss >something then sharply swerving back. I’ve heard that some of the problem >with the Explorers and their rollovers were that the tires blew and people >immediately hit the brakes and went over to the side of the road. >Here in Milwaukee I don’t think I’ve ever seen a rollover, even in the >winter months. I believe that semi accidents here are more common then >rollovers too, but I’m not positive. >I’ve done donuts in a Blazer (I think it has a 2 star rollover rating) and >I felt the body shift a little but nothing that would stop me from doing >it again. Just like in a Caprice. > Having handled quite a number of roll-over claims I think that what > isn’t being mentioned is the unintentional off road maneuvers some > folk engage in, coupled with T-Bone accidents & you’ve got your > statistics.   In the T-Bone field, Toyota Echo’s tend to roll quite > nicely for a car. > On a related point of interest, I’ve seen very few "drifters" driving > 4×4’s trucks.  Mostly low center of gravity cars. > But like you said.  99.999999999% of the time it’s operator > malfunction.

The other proof of operator error is to look at history.  Suburbans and full size Blazers, Bronco’s, IH Scout, have been around for many years, back through the 70’s, 60’s, 50’s.  They didn’t seem to have a problem with roll overs then, it wasn’t until the 90’s when everyone got tired of driving tiny cars and started moving up that you have people that shouldn’t be driving now driving vehicles which the media likes to target for a story so when two accidents happen in town, one being a car, one being an SUV the news reports on the SUV accident so they can point out how "evil" the SUV’s are.

Response:

The fruth is, in the real world very few vehicles ever ‘rollover.’ If the height of a vehicle was the cause of vehicle rollovers one would see one hell of a lot of six wheel trucks rolledover.  The roll over myth is foisted by the shark lawyer to sue and the environuts effort to get people to stop buying the vehicle they want.  It takes some extreme forces or and object to elevate the side of a vehicle to a point it will roll over rather than fall back on its wheels.  Watch all the SUV’s that you see spin in circles in chases shown in movies and on TV that never rollover. To get any vehicle to turn over the stunt people need to run them up ramps four of five feet high. mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Automotive turkeys of 2004 > The Ford Explorer Sport Trac was given the highest probability of roll > over for a sport utility vehicle by the National Highway Traffic Safety > Commission.

Response:

> The fruth is, in the real world very few vehicles ever > ‘rollover.’ If the height of a vehicle was the cause of vehicle > rollovers one would see one hell of a lot of six wheel trucks > rolledover.  The roll over myth is foisted by the shark lawyer to > sue and the environuts effort to get people to stop buying the > vehicle they want.  It takes some extreme forces or and object to > elevate the side of a vehicle to a point it will roll over rather > than fall back on its wheels.  Watch all the SUV’s that you see > spin in circles in chases shown in movies and on TV that never > rollover. To get any vehicle to turn over the stunt people need > to run them up ramps four of five feet high. > mike hunt

Hmmm… Visit Houston sometime. At least one or two suv’s rollover every day on the freeway. I see them going and coming from work or see/hear about them on the news. I don’t know how many I don’t see or don’t make the news. It is so common here that few people pay attention any more unless someone dies. Last summer I had the opportunity to help extricate a dead woman with a crushed head out of a rolled over Explorer. Also, on average, one 18 wheeler jack-knifes or rolls over everyday on the freeway.  On average, one 18 wheel tanker flips and explodes each week on the freeway – usually taking out a section of roadway in the process. I agree with your observations about trucks though. I can’t remember ever seeing a rolled over 6 or 10 wheeler. Stiff suspension makes them slide.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hmmm… > Visit Houston sometime. > At least one or two suv’s rollover every day on the freeway. > I see them going and coming from work or see/hear about them on the news. > I don’t know how many I don’t see or don’t make the news. > It is so common here that few people pay attention any more unless > someone dies. > Last summer I had the opportunity to help extricate a dead woman with a > crushed head out of a rolled over Explorer. > Also, on average, one 18 wheeler jack-knifes or rolls over everyday > on the freeway.  On average, one 18 wheel tanker flips and explodes each > week on the freeway – usually taking out a section of roadway in the > process. > I agree with your observations about trucks though. > I can’t remember ever seeing a rolled over 6 or 10 wheeler. > Stiff suspension makes them slide.

How much of it is that people don’t know how to control the vehicle? I could see it happening much easier if someone made a swerve to miss something then sharply swerving back. I’ve heard that some of the problem with the Explorers and their rollovers were that the tires blew and people immediately hit the brakes and went over to the side of the road. Here in Milwaukee I don’t think I’ve ever seen a rollover, even in the winter months. I believe that semi accidents here are more common then rollovers too, but I’m not positive. I’ve done donuts in a Blazer (I think it has a 2 star rollover rating) and I felt the body shift a little but nothing that would stop me from doing it again. Just like in a Caprice.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hmmm… > Visit Houston sometime. > At least one or two suv’s rollover every day on the freeway. > I see them going and coming from work or see/hear about them on the news. > I don’t know how many I don’t see or don’t make the news. > It is so common here that few people pay attention any more unless > someone dies. > Last summer I had the opportunity to help extricate a dead woman with a > crushed head out of a rolled over Explorer. > Also, on average, one 18 wheeler jack-knifes or rolls over everyday > on the freeway.  On average, one 18 wheel tanker flips and explodes each > week on the freeway – usually taking out a section of roadway in the > process. > I agree with your observations about trucks though. > I can’t remember ever seeing a rolled over 6 or 10 wheeler. > Stiff suspension makes them slide. >How much of it is that people don’t know how to control the vehicle? I could >see it happening much easier if someone made a swerve to miss something then >sharply swerving back. I’ve heard that some of the problem with the >Explorers and their rollovers were that the tires blew and people >immediately hit the brakes and went over to the side of the road. >Here in Milwaukee I don’t think I’ve ever seen a rollover, even in the >winter months. I believe that semi accidents here are more common then >rollovers too, but I’m not positive. >I’ve done donuts in a Blazer (I think it has a 2 star rollover rating) and I >felt the body shift a little but nothing that would stop me from doing it >again. Just like in a Caprice.

Having handled quite a number of roll-over claims I think that what isn’t being mentioned is the unintentional off road maneuvers some folk engage in, coupled with T-Bone accidents & you’ve got your statistics.   In the T-Bone field, Toyota Echo’s tend to roll quite nicely for a car. On a related point of interest, I’ve seen very few "drifters" driving 4×4’s trucks.  Mostly low center of gravity cars. But like you said.  99.999999999% of the time it’s operator malfunction.

Response:

Automotive turkeys of 2004 The

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