Oil Change for '03 Mountaineer V8
Question:
I am approaching 5000 miles on our ‘03 Mountaineer V8 and plan to take it to Jiffy Lube for an oil and filter change. I know many of you will badmouth Jiffy Lube, but my experience has been that it’s at least as good as the dealer and much more convenient. That being said, I seem to recall when I got the new ride in September that the book said something about synthetic oil. As I am too lazy to look at the book now, I am wondering what to be sure Jiffy Lube does and does not do. What type of oil does my vehicle require? I don’t want to get oversold or undersold.
Response:
Check the manual. It surely doesn’t REQUIRE synthetic (I should never say "surely", though folks seem to believe generally that synthetics are better. I think the recommendation now is 5-20? (notice the "think" and the "?") I wouldn’t use synthetic and I SURE AS HECK would NOT NOT NOT let Jiffy Lube near my truck with a 10-foot…. anything. But then, I won’t let ANYONE near my truck with a 10-foot anything. No one is allowed to change my oil but ME! Not even Jim Warman – and I’m sure he’d do it right. Don’t let oil jockeys touch your Explorer. Buck up and do it yourself B.D. You’ll have the glowing sense of reward and achievement. And DO NOT NOT NOT NEVER NO HOW let Jiffy Lube touch your lugnuts or let anyone else who does not know what a torque wrench is. Sorry I can’t be more help. Regards, Anthony Giorgianni
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am approaching 5000 miles on our ‘03 Mountaineer V8 and plan to take it to > Jiffy Lube for an oil and filter change. I know many of you will badmouth > Jiffy Lube, but my experience has been that it’s at least as good as the > dealer and much more convenient. That being said, I seem to recall when I > got the new ride in September that the book said something about synthetic > oil. As I am too lazy to look at the book now, I am wondering what to be > sure Jiffy Lube does and does not do. What type of oil does my vehicle > require? I don’t want to get oversold or undersold.
Response:
My ‘02 EB 4L V6 states 5W-30 on the oil fill cap. Don’t forget to reset the oil life back to 100% in the message center. Also, can’t remember if you found a mat for the back end, but if you live in the upper midwest and there’s a Menards around, they sell a 3/16 inch thick mat that’s sold by the foot off a 4 foot wide roll for about $4/ft and it’s a near perfect match for the parchment interior color. http://menards.com/menards?mm_dest=%2Flocator%2Fstorefinder.jsp wth
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am approaching 5000 miles on our ‘03 Mountaineer V8 and plan to take it to > Jiffy Lube for an oil and filter change. I know many of you will badmouth > Jiffy Lube, but my experience has been that it’s at least as good as the > dealer and much more convenient. That being said, I seem to recall when I > got the new ride in September that the book said something about synthetic > oil. As I am too lazy to look at the book now, I am wondering what to be > sure Jiffy Lube does and does not do. What type of oil does my vehicle > require? I don’t want to get oversold or undersold.
Response:
First of all, I changed my own oil when I was a teenager and WOULD NEVER EVER DO IT AGAIN myself. The extra $10 (beyond the cost of buying the oil and filter myself) is WELL WORTH it to me. The "sense of satisfaction" can be saved for something more important in life. Second of all, as I reported here earlier, my experience with Jiffy Lube has been pretty good. As with independents and with Ford (and even Lexus) dealers, you DO have to watch them and verify everything they do. That being said, I find Jiffy Lube to be quick, convenient and a reasonable maintenance experience. Finally, as to letting people touch vehicles with 10 foot poles, well, I don’t like 10 foot poles either. But we’re talking A VEHICLE here, not open heart surgery. Stuff can happen, but most reasonable, attentive owners can get reasonable attentive repair/maintenance experiences at the usual places. It’s just a car…not a religion.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Check the manual. It surely doesn’t REQUIRE synthetic (I should never say > "surely", though folks seem to believe generally that synthetics are better. > I think the recommendation now is 5-20? (notice the "think" and the "?") > I wouldn’t use synthetic and I SURE AS HECK would NOT NOT NOT let Jiffy Lube > near my truck with a 10-foot…. anything. > But then, I won’t let ANYONE near my truck with a 10-foot anything. No one > is allowed to change my oil but ME! Not even Jim Warman – and I’m sure he’d > do it right. > Don’t let oil jockeys touch your Explorer. Buck up and do it yourself B.D. > You’ll have the glowing sense of reward and achievement. > And DO NOT NOT NOT NEVER NO HOW let Jiffy Lube touch your lugnuts or let > anyone else who does not know what a torque wrench is. > Sorry I can’t be more help. > Regards, > Anthony Giorgianni > I am approaching 5000 miles on our ‘03 Mountaineer V8 and plan to take it > to > Jiffy Lube for an oil and filter change. I know many of you will badmouth > Jiffy Lube, but my experience has been that it’s at least as good as the > dealer and much more convenient. That being said, I seem to recall when I > got the new ride in September that the book said something about synthetic > oil. As I am too lazy to look at the book now, I am wondering what to be > sure Jiffy Lube does and does not do. What type of oil does my vehicle > require? I don’t want to get oversold or undersold.
Response:
That’s of course your choice BD..I was only being jocular, in part, and I admit I overdo it with my 92 Explorer. But I did go with a friend to a Jiffy Lube on Long Island last summer to change the oil on her Pathfinder. I was appalled by their lack of knowledge. They tried to sell her a variety of services, including a tire rotation. I asked them for the setting they would use to torque the lugnuts. None of them had any idea what I was talking about. They said I needed to talk to the manager. He had no idea either. Four of them stood around me while I explained what that is and why it is important. I even took the owners manual out of the Pathfinder and showed them. "You’re supposed to do that?" the manager asked. "They never told us anything about that." He took me out to his older Blazer, telling me how proud he was of it and how he was going to go to Sears, get a torque wrench and check his wheels right after work. I’m thinking: how many warped rotors had to be replaced because of these guys? And they charged their customers for privilege of messing up their cars. The oil change is the time when someone with knowledge needs to look over the vehicle generally. It seems to me that if the guys at Jiffy Lube really had the experience they need to work on vehicles properly, they wouldn’t be working at Jiffy Lube. Also, I wonder if they will bother to find out what type of oil your Explorer uses and whether they will have it. I am pretty sure Ford has gone to 5-20 on the V8 (not on the 4.0). I would watch them and try to verify that they are putting the right stuff in. As a consumer journalist for many years, I received a fair number of complaints about problems at fast-change oil places. They have included examples of filters and oil plugs falling off afterwards and the wrong filter being used. On the other hand, maybe because of my background, I’m too cautious. Maybe that’s the same reason I don’t like anyone working on my truck. I remember the time I had a Ford dealership do warranty work. I asked them to follow the fastener torque settings in the TSB. "Look Buddy, I’m going to be honest with you," the repair shop manager said, "we don’t do that. We use impact wrenches." Then they complain that I don’t take my truck there for service (I should add that he said they DO use torque wrenches for lugnuts – probably the Rotunda tool for the impact wrench – and for certain engine work. I don’t doubt that they do.) Anyway, given these experiences, given the work I do where I hear all the stuff that goes wrong so often, I guess I’m just jaded. Good luck with your new truck. Regards, Anthony Giorgianni
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> First of all, I changed my own oil when I was a teenager and WOULD NEVER > EVER DO IT AGAIN myself. The extra $10 (beyond the cost of buying the oil > and filter myself) is WELL WORTH it to me. The "sense of satisfaction" can > be saved for something more important in life. > Second of all, as I reported here earlier, my experience with Jiffy Lube has > been pretty good. As with independents and with Ford (and even Lexus) > dealers, you DO have to watch them and verify everything they do. That being > said, I find Jiffy Lube to be quick, convenient and a reasonable maintenance > experience. > Finally, as to letting people touch vehicles with 10 foot poles, well, I > don’t like 10 foot poles either. But we’re talking A VEHICLE here, not open > heart surgery. Stuff can happen, but most reasonable, attentive owners can > get reasonable attentive repair/maintenance experiences at the usual places. > It’s just a car…not a religion.
<snip>
Response:
Oh I forgot another interesting story When it became time to do the 30,000 mile check on my Explorer, I went to my selling dealer to get all the various lubricants that were specified in the manual and the metal keystone clamps for the driveshafts. The parts department said they did not have any of the stuff on hand and would have to order it for me. I asked what they use in the shop then. "We just use grease. We have a big drum of it," the guy told me. And for the driveshafts? They use plastic zip ties. So again, it is very hard to get stuff done to spec. I wouldn’t doubt that someone like Jim Warman does things the way they should be done, but such a mechanic is hard to find in my experience. Of course, it may be that generic grease and zip ties are just fine, but I like to do what the manual and TSBs say, like using silicon gel on the brake caliper slide rails instead of grease. I wonder how many independent repair shops do that. Regards, Anthony Giorgianni Regards, Anthony Giorgianni
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> That’s of course your choice BD..I was only being jocular, in part, and I > admit I overdo it with my 92 Explorer. > But I did go with a friend to a Jiffy Lube on Long Island last summer to > change the oil on her Pathfinder. I was appalled by their lack of knowledge. > They tried to sell her a variety of services, including a tire rotation. I > asked them for the setting they would use to torque the lugnuts. None of > them had any idea what I was talking about. They said I needed to talk to > the manager. He had no idea either. > Four of them stood around me while I explained what that is and why it is > important. I even took the owners manual out of the Pathfinder and showed > them. > "You’re supposed to do that?" the manager asked. "They never told us > anything about that." He took me out to his older Blazer, telling me how > proud he was of it and how he was going to go to Sears, get a torque wrench > and check his wheels right after work. > I’m thinking: how many warped rotors had to be replaced because of these > guys? And they charged their customers for privilege of messing up their > cars. > The oil change is the time when someone with knowledge needs to look over > the vehicle generally. It seems to me that if the guys at Jiffy Lube really > had the experience they need to work on vehicles properly, they wouldn’t be > working at Jiffy Lube. Also, I wonder if they will bother to find out what > type of oil your Explorer uses and whether they will have it. I am pretty > sure Ford has gone to 5-20 on the V8 (not on the 4.0). I would watch them > and try to verify that they are putting the right stuff in. As a consumer > journalist for many years, I received a fair number of complaints about > problems at fast-change oil places. They have included examples of filters > and oil plugs falling off afterwards and the wrong filter being used. On the > other hand, maybe because of my background, I’m too cautious. > Maybe that’s the same reason I don’t like anyone working on my truck. I > remember the time I had a Ford dealership do warranty work. I asked them to > follow the fastener torque settings in the TSB. > "Look Buddy, I’m going to be honest with you," the repair shop manager said, > "we don’t do that. We use impact wrenches." Then they complain that I don’t > take my truck there for service (I should add that he said they DO use > torque wrenches for lugnuts – probably the Rotunda tool for the impact > wrench – and for certain engine work. I don’t doubt that they do.) > Anyway, given these experiences, given the work I do where I hear all the > stuff that goes wrong so often, I guess I’m just jaded. > Good luck with your new truck. > Regards, > Anthony Giorgianni > First of all, I changed my own oil when I was a teenager and WOULD NEVER > EVER DO IT AGAIN myself. The extra $10 (beyond the cost of buying the oil > and filter myself) is WELL WORTH it to me. The "sense of satisfaction" can > be saved for something more important in life. > Second of all, as I reported here earlier, my experience with Jiffy Lube > has > been pretty good. As with independents and with Ford (and even Lexus) > dealers, you DO have to watch them and verify everything they do. That > being > said, I find Jiffy Lube to be quick, convenient and a reasonable > maintenance > experience. > Finally, as to letting people touch vehicles with 10 foot poles, well, I > don’t like 10 foot poles either. But we’re talking A VEHICLE here, not > open > heart surgery. Stuff can happen, but most reasonable, attentive owners can > get reasonable attentive repair/maintenance experiences at the usual > places. > It’s just a car…not a religion. > <snip>
Response:
> When it became time to do the 30,000 mile check on my Explorer, I went to my > selling dealer to get all the various lubricants that were specified in the > manual and the metal keystone clamps for the driveshafts. The parts > department said they did not have any of the stuff on hand and would have to > order it for me.
I am curious, why did you need new clamps for the driveshafts? Is it part of the 30,000 checkup to regrease the CV joints? As far as I can tell the manual says to "inspect" the driveshaft every 15,000 miles, but I assume this means to make sure the boots aren’t torn and the joints are tight. It never occurred to me to break the seal on the joint boots. Only one time have I regreased CV joints just to regrease them – a 1978 Ford Fiesta with 120,000 miles (it corrected a strange vibration). I have regreased plenty of CV joints during a boot repair/replacement but otherwise the Fiesta was the only time I ever removed a good boot to add grease. And in that case I replaced the boots. Even if routine greasing ws required, I’d never put the old boots back, and all the new boots I have ever bought came with clamps (I even have the proper tool to crimp them). Regards, Ed White
Response:
Hello C.E. Unless I am terribly mistaken – and I hope I am not because then I have done a lot of work for nuttin 
( – the 30,000 and 60,000 mile service for the 92 4-door says to grease the driveshaft slip yokes on the rear shaft and, I’m pretty sure, right front shaft. I don’t think it says anything about the front shaft (transfer case forward), but there is a slip yoke on there too- so I’ve done that. (If needed, I also take the opportunity to coat the shafts – except for the balance mark – with a very light coat of semi-gloss black Rust-Oleum. Keeps ‘em looking brand new.) Taking them apart, it does seems as though – through the constant in and out action of the slip yoke – the grease gets pushed off the spline into the hole in the shaft. I’ve only had to replace one boot – that one attached to the front of the transfer case (I noticed a small tear during 60,000 service – I have 63,000 now). I had to do a nationwide search of Ford dealerships to find it (an obsolete part). I could find only three. It did NOT come with the keystone clamps, which I ordered separately. I too have the crimping tool. I was considering using metal hose clamps. But I thought there might be some reason why Ford decided to use those keystone things. They are not very expensive, but it’s unfortunate you have to break them to remove them. Every time I do an oil change, I inspect those boots. I taught two of my old girlfriends to change their oil and to inspect the CV boots on their Toyotas at the same time.. (If I even mention changing her own oil to my current girlfriend, she looks at me like she found a worm in her soup). Whenever my old girlfriends change their oil now (they still like me to spot them), they always make of fun me and say: "Inspect the boots," sort of sarcastically. (BD isn’t the only one who thinks I’m a nut). Anyway, I think I’ve told you too much ( Regards, Anthony Giorgianni <snip> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am curious, why did you need new clamps for the driveshafts? Is it part of the > 30,000 checkup to regrease the CV joints? As far as I can tell the manual says > to "inspect" the driveshaft every 15,000 miles, but I assume this means to make > sure the boots aren’t torn and the joints are tight. It never occurred to me to > break the seal on the joint boots. Only one time have I regreased CV joints just > to regrease them – a 1978 Ford Fiesta with 120,000 miles (it corrected a strange > vibration). I have regreased plenty of CV joints during a boot > repair/replacement but otherwise the Fiesta was the only time I ever removed a > good boot to add grease. And in that case I replaced the boots. Even if routine > greasing ws required, I’d never put the old boots back, and all the new boots I > have ever bought came with clamps (I even have the proper tool to crimp them). > Regards, > Ed White
Response:
Oh by the way, the dealer’s proposed 30,000 service check did NOT include regreasing driveshafts. But for $369 I think it was, the dealer was willing to check the level of my windshield washer fluid reservoir (I don’t know if that included the rear reservoir). That actually made a pretty good investigative piece for the major daily newspaper I was working for at the time as consumer writer. I did a review of proposed service checks by dealers for many models and found that they all differed from what the manufacturers recommended. I think I’ve posted that here before, but I guess it’s part of the reason I don’t trust anyone anymore. I also figure if they are not checking something as important as a jack-screw in the an airliner’s tail assembly, allowing the plane to go crashing onto the ground, imagine what car mechanics are leaving out. Boy am I badly jaded. Regards, Anthony Giorgianni <snip>
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Oh I forgot another interesting story >When it became time to do the 30,000 mile check on my Explorer, I went to my >selling dealer to get all the various lubricants that were specified in the >manual and the metal keystone clamps for the driveshafts. The parts >department said they did not have any of the stuff on hand and would have to >order it for me. >I asked what they use in the shop then. >"We just use grease. We have a big drum of it," the guy told me. And for the >driveshafts? They use plastic zip ties. >So again, it is very hard to get stuff done to spec. I wouldn’t doubt that >someone like Jim Warman does things the way they should be done, but such a >mechanic is hard to find in my experience. Of course, it may be that generic >grease and zip ties are just fine, but I like to do what the manual and TSBs >say, like using silicon gel on the brake caliper slide rails instead of >grease. I wonder how many independent repair shops do that.
There’s what Ford tells you, and there’s what can be done. Two different things Look in your Owners MAnual, and it also tells you to use Motorcraft oil. Zip ties do the job as well as what Ford sells. If the grease in the barrel meets Ford’s specs, it works just fine.It isn’t necessary for each and every maintenance item to have Ford’s name on the packaging. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Regards, >Anthony Giorgianni >Regards, >Anthony Giorgianni > That’s of course your choice BD..I was only being jocular, in part, and I > admit I overdo it with my 92 Explorer. > But I did go with a friend to a Jiffy Lube on Long Island last summer to > change the oil on her Pathfinder. I was appalled by their lack of >knowledge. > They tried to sell her a variety of services, including a tire rotation. I > asked them for the setting they would use to torque the lugnuts. None of > them had any idea what I was talking about. They said I needed to talk to > the manager. He had no idea either. > Four of them stood around me while I explained what that is and why it is > important. I even took the owners manual out of the Pathfinder and showed > them. > "You’re supposed to do that?" the manager asked. "They never told us > anything about that." He took me out to his older Blazer, telling me how > proud he was of it and how he was going to go to Sears, get a torque >wrench > and check his wheels right after work. > I’m thinking: how many warped rotors had to be replaced because of these > guys? And they charged their customers for privilege of messing up their > cars. > The oil change is the time when someone with knowledge needs to look over > the vehicle generally. It seems to me that if the guys at Jiffy Lube >really > had the experience they need to work on vehicles properly, they wouldn’t >be > working at Jiffy Lube. Also, I wonder if they will bother to find out what > type of oil your Explorer uses and whether they will have it. I am pretty > sure Ford has gone to 5-20 on the V8 (not on the 4.0). I would watch them > and try to verify that they are putting the right stuff in. As a consumer > journalist for many years, I received a fair number of complaints about > problems at fast-change oil places. They have included examples of filters > and oil plugs falling off afterwards and the wrong filter being used. On >the > other hand, maybe because of my background, I’m too cautious. > Maybe that’s the same reason I don’t like anyone working on my truck. I > remember the time I had a Ford dealership do warranty work. I asked them >to > follow the fastener torque settings in the TSB. > "Look Buddy, I’m going to be honest with you," the repair shop manager >said, > "we don’t do that. We use impact wrenches." Then they complain that I >don’t > take my truck there for service (I should add that he said they DO use > torque wrenches for lugnuts – probably the Rotunda tool for the impact > wrench – and for certain engine work. I don’t doubt that they do.) > Anyway, given these experiences, given the work I do where I hear all the > stuff that goes wrong so often, I guess I’m just jaded. > Good luck with your new truck. > Regards, > Anthony Giorgianni > > First of all, I changed my own oil when I was a teenager and WOULD NEVER > > EVER DO IT AGAIN myself. The extra $10 (beyond the cost of buying the >oil > > and filter myself) is WELL WORTH it to me. The "sense of satisfaction" >can > > be saved for something more important in life. > > Second of all, as I reported here earlier, my experience with Jiffy Lube > has > > been pretty good. As with independents and with Ford (and even Lexus) > > dealers, you DO have to watch them and verify everything they do. That > being > > said, I find Jiffy Lube to be quick, convenient and a reasonable > maintenance > > experience. > > Finally, as to letting people touch vehicles with 10 foot poles, well, I > > don’t like 10 foot poles either. But we’re talking A VEHICLE here, not > open > > heart surgery. Stuff can happen, but most reasonable, attentive owners >can > > get reasonable attentive repair/maintenance experiences at the usual > places. > > It’s just a car…not a religion. > <snip>
– Bill Replace "g" with "a" Experience is what you get when you expected something else.
Response:
Anthony and group, You are right about watching the fast lube places. The one here in town has the 5-30 motor oil, but does not know the difference between the old Mercon and the new Mercon V tranny fluid. Putting the old fluid into one of the newer transmissions that require Mercon V is a sure way to trash the drivetrain. My wife is a sharp cookie. She had her Focus (which has not had a single mechanical breakdown!) in for 15,000 service and an oil change at the local Ford dealer this week. When she got the bill, there was a charge for "excess oil". She was told the car took over six quarts, their maximum for an oil change. She stopped them right there, called the service manager, and wanted them to show her how they could put six quarts of oil into a four and a half quart container (total capacity of the engine with filter) Much discussing and hemming and hawing, and they took the charge off for "customer goodwill". That’s the last time they will see the car in their service bays. I have an independent mechanic who works on straight salary. The shop takes care of all my other vehicles which are out of factory warranty. He now has an new car to service. Such shennanigans are the reason we quit taking the Focus to the dealer we bought it from. Are the dealers really that hard up for cash that they intentionally defraud their customers, hoping they won’t notice? Regards, Richard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > That’s of course your choice BD..I was only being jocular, in part, and I > admit I overdo it with my 92 Explorer. > But I did go with a friend to a Jiffy Lube on Long Island last summer to > change the oil on her Pathfinder. I was appalled by their lack of knowledge. > They tried to sell her a variety of services, including a tire rotation. I > asked them for the setting they would use to torque the lugnuts. None of > them had any idea what I was talking about. They said I needed to talk to > the manager. He had no idea either. > Four of them stood around me while I explained what that is and why it is > important. I even took the owners manual out of the Pathfinder and showed > them. > "You’re supposed to do that?" the manager asked. "They never told us > anything about that." He took me out to his older Blazer, telling me how > proud he was of it and how he was going to go to Sears, get a torque wrench > and check his wheels right after work. > I’m thinking: how many warped rotors had to be replaced because of these > guys? And they charged their customers for privilege of messing up their > cars. > The oil change is the time when someone with knowledge needs to look over > the vehicle generally. It seems to me that if the guys at Jiffy Lube really > had the experience they need to work on vehicles properly, they wouldn’t be > working at Jiffy Lube. Also, I wonder if they will bother to find out what > type of oil your Explorer uses and whether they will have it. I am pretty > sure Ford has gone to 5-20 on the V8 (not on the 4.0). I would watch them > and try to verify that they are putting the right stuff in. As a consumer > journalist for many years, I received a fair number of complaints about > problems at fast-change oil places. They have included examples of filters > and oil plugs falling off afterwards and the wrong filter being used. On the > other hand, maybe because of my background, I’m too cautious. > Maybe that’s the same reason I don’t like anyone working on my truck. I > remember the time I had a Ford dealership do warranty work. I asked them to > follow the fastener torque settings in the TSB. > "Look Buddy, I’m going to be honest with you," the repair shop manager said, > "we don’t do that. We use impact wrenches." Then they complain that I don’t > take my truck there for service (I should add that he said they DO use > torque wrenches for lugnuts – probably the Rotunda tool for the impact > wrench – and for certain engine work. I don’t doubt that they do.) > Anyway, given these experiences, given the work I do where I hear all the > stuff that goes wrong so often, I guess I’m just jaded. > Good luck with your new truck. > Regards, > Anthony Giorgianni >First of all, I changed my own oil when I was a teenager and WOULD NEVER >EVER DO IT AGAIN myself. The extra $10 (beyond the cost of buying the oil >and filter myself) is WELL WORTH it to me. The "sense of satisfaction" can >be saved for something more important in life. >Second of all, as I reported here earlier, my experience with Jiffy Lube > has >been pretty good. As with independents and with Ford (and even Lexus) >dealers, you DO have to watch them and verify everything they do. That > being >said, I find Jiffy Lube to be quick, convenient and a reasonable > maintenance >experience. >Finally, as to letting people touch vehicles with 10 foot poles, well, I >don’t like 10 foot poles either. But we’re talking A VEHICLE here, not > open >heart surgery. Stuff can happen, but most reasonable, attentive owners can >get reasonable attentive repair/maintenance experiences at the usual > places. >It’s just a car…not a religion. > <snip>
Response:
Thank you for the response, Bill <snip> > Zip ties do the job as well as what Ford sells.
I can’t think of a reason why one couldn’t use zip ties. But I also have to ask myself: If that’s he case, why didn’t Ford put zip ties on the boots when they built the truck? I don’t have answer for that. So I use what Ford did initially. > If the grease in the barrel meets Ford’s specs, it works just fine.It > isn’t necessary for each and every maintenance item to have Ford’s > name on the packaging.
That’s true … if the grease meets Ford specification, that’s fine. But Ford has different specifications for the grease used on different parts. So I don’t see how the grease in that barrel can meet all the specifications at the same time. That’s what troubled me. What ended up happening was that the Ford brand grease was so expensive, I hunted for aftermarket grease that met the same spec. In on case (I forget which grease it was), I could not find the same spec. So I remember actually calling a lab (Amalie, I think) at one of the petroleum companies and asked him for the grease met the certain Ford spec I was looking for. The guy was a bit surprised to hear from me, but he was very helpful. As it turned out, it WAS the plastic container of grease I thought it was for that brand. But I wanted sure the spec was exactly, not being an expert on these things. Regards, Anthony Giorgianni <snip> .
Response:
I find there is a difference among dealers, and even among different people at a dealership. The parts people at the nearly Ford dealership – I bought elsewhere because the nearest guy would not match the invoice price I got – are really super nice. They will look up anything, get me advice from the mechanics on installing stuff and give me a 10 percent discount on top every time! Somehow they actually remember who I am. Regards, Anthony Giorgianni
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Anthony and group, > You are right about watching the fast lube places. The one here in town > has the 5-30 motor oil, but does not know the difference between the old > Mercon and the new Mercon V tranny fluid. Putting the old fluid into one > of the newer transmissions that require Mercon V is a sure way to trash > the drivetrain. > My wife is a sharp cookie. She had her Focus (which has not had a single > mechanical breakdown!) in for 15,000 service and an oil change at the > local Ford dealer this week. When she got the bill, there was a charge > for "excess oil". She was told the car took over six quarts, their > maximum for an oil change. She stopped them right there, called the > service manager, and wanted them to show her how they could put six > quarts of oil into a four and a half quart container (total capacity of > the engine with filter) Much discussing and hemming and hawing, and they > took the charge off for "customer goodwill". > That’s the last time they will see the car in their service bays. I have > an independent mechanic who works on straight salary. The shop takes > care of all my other vehicles which are out of factory warranty. He now > has an new car to service. Such shennanigans are the reason we quit > taking the Focus to the dealer we bought it from. Are the dealers really > that hard up for cash that they intentionally defraud their customers, > hoping they won’t notice? > Regards, > Richard
<snip>
Response:
Agreed…. Ford does not produce their own lubricants….. Locally, Motorcraft motor oils come in one litre containers quite obviously packaged by Esso Petroleum Canada while our 205 litre drums come from Petro-Canada – key phrase is "meets or exceeds….". For Anthony et al, my personal take is that if the rubber bellows on the shafts have not been breached, I will leave well enough alone. While I will resort to wrap ties (but not for CV joints) I don’t feel they offer the sealing "power" of the (odd name you Yanks have chosen) keystone clamps. Don’t forget that the splines on the shaft have been coated to reduce friction, anyway (too bad it doesn’t stand up a little better). I will admit that I long for the days of greasable slip yokes, but we all have to admit that newer vehicles are very good when we don’t exceed their design parameters (something we used to be able to do with wild abandon). We need to temper some of the things we do lest we run into ‘MIF’ – Maintenance Induce Failure….. — Jim Warman
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Oh I forgot another interesting story >When it became time to do the 30,000 mile check on my Explorer, I went to my >selling dealer to get all the various lubricants that were specified in the >manual and the metal keystone clamps for the driveshafts. The parts >department said they did not have any of the stuff on hand and would have to >order it for me. >I asked what they use in the shop then. >"We just use grease. We have a big drum of it," the guy told me. And for the >driveshafts? They use plastic zip ties. >So again, it is very hard to get stuff done to spec. I wouldn’t doubt that >someone like Jim Warman does things the way they should be done, but such a >mechanic is hard to find in my experience. Of course, it may be that generic >grease and zip ties are just fine, but I like to do what the manual and TSBs >say, like using silicon gel on the brake caliper slide rails instead of >grease. I wonder how many independent repair shops do that. > There’s what Ford tells you, and there’s what can be done. > Two different things > Look in your Owners MAnual, and it also tells you to use Motorcraft > oil. > Zip ties do the job as well as what Ford sells. > If the grease in the barrel meets Ford’s specs, it works just fine.It > isn’t necessary for each and every maintenance item to have Ford’s > name on the packaging. >Regards, >Anthony Giorgianni >Regards, >Anthony Giorgianni >> That’s of course your choice BD..I was only being jocular, in part, and I >> admit I overdo it with my 92 Explorer. >> But I did go with a friend to a Jiffy Lube on Long Island last summer to >> change the oil on her Pathfinder. I was appalled by their lack of >knowledge. >> They tried to sell her a variety of services, including a tire rotation. I >> asked them for the setting they would use to torque the lugnuts. None of >> them had any idea what I was talking about. They said I needed to talk to >> the manager. He had no idea either. >> Four of them stood around me while I explained what that is and why it is >> important. I even took the owners manual out of the Pathfinder and showed >> them. >> "You’re supposed to do that?" the manager asked. "They never told us >> anything about that." He took me out to his older Blazer, telling me how >> proud he was of it and how he was going to go to Sears, get a torque >wrench >> and check his wheels right after work. >> I’m thinking: how many warped rotors had to be replaced because of these >> guys? And they charged their customers for privilege of messing up their >> cars. >> The oil change is the time when someone with knowledge needs to look over >> the vehicle generally. It seems to me that if the guys at Jiffy Lube >really >> had the experience they need to work on vehicles properly, they wouldn’t >be >> working at Jiffy Lube. Also, I wonder if they will bother to find out what >> type of oil your Explorer uses and whether they will have it. I am pretty >> sure Ford has gone to 5-20 on the V8 (not on the 4.0). I would watch them >> and try to verify that they are putting the right stuff in. As a consumer >> journalist for many years, I received a fair number of complaints about >> problems at fast-change oil places. They have included examples of filters >> and oil plugs falling off afterwards and the wrong filter being used. On >the >> other hand, maybe because of my background, I’m too cautious. >> Maybe that’s the same reason I don’t like anyone working on my truck. I >> remember the time I had a Ford dealership do warranty work. I asked them >to >> follow the fastener torque settings in the TSB. >> "Look Buddy, I’m going to be honest with you," the repair shop manager >said, >> "we don’t do that. We use impact wrenches." Then they complain that I >don’t >> take my truck there for service (I should add that he said they DO use >> torque wrenches for lugnuts – probably the Rotunda tool for the impact >> wrench – and for certain engine work. I don’t doubt that they do.) >> Anyway, given these experiences, given the work I do where I hear all the >> stuff that goes wrong so often, I guess I’m just jaded. >> Good luck with your new truck. >> Regards, >> Anthony Giorgianni >> > First of all, I changed my own oil when I was a teenager and WOULD NEVER >> > EVER DO IT AGAIN myself. The extra $10 (beyond the cost of buying the >oil >> > and filter myself) is WELL WORTH it to me. The "sense of satisfaction" >can >> > be saved for something more important in life. >> > Second of all, as I reported here earlier, my experience with Jiffy Lube >> has >> > been pretty good. As with independents and with Ford (and even Lexus) >> > dealers, you DO have to watch them and verify everything they do. That >> being >> > said, I find Jiffy Lube to be quick, convenient and a reasonable >> maintenance >> > experience. >> > Finally, as to letting people touch vehicles with 10 foot poles, well, I >> > don’t like 10 foot poles either. But we’re talking A VEHICLE here, not >> open >> > heart surgery. Stuff can happen, but most reasonable, attentive owners >can >> > get reasonable attentive repair/maintenance experiences at the usual >> places. >> > It’s just a car…not a religion. >> <snip> > — > Bill > Replace "g" with "a" > Experience is what you get when you expected something else.
Response:
Thanks for your sage insight, Jim. (I don’t know if they were Ford "brand" lubricants the dealer was offering to order for me. But they were incredibly expensive.) I think – with having NONE of your background – if Ford says to do the shafts, why not do them? Gives me a sense of accomplishment anyway. And I get to look them over real well in the process, though I did break one of the bolts on the front transfer case shaft the last time I did it USING A TORQUE WRENCH (which is really super embarrassing to admit). I figured the published torque setting was simply too low, so I upped it a tad – snap. Had to take it to a mechanic behind my house to get the broken piece out of the flange. In my own defense, I will say that some years earlier I had used Ford in-lb torque settings on the front part of the rear shaft (I think it was – maybe the rear part of the shaft?) and found the bolts loose about a week later!!!!!! Regards, Anthony Giorgianni
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Agreed…. Ford does not produce their own lubricants….. Locally, > Motorcraft motor oils come in one litre containers quite obviously packaged > by Esso Petroleum Canada while our 205 litre drums come from Petro-Canada – > key phrase is "meets or exceeds….". > For Anthony et al, my personal take is that if the rubber bellows on the > shafts have not been breached, I will leave well enough alone. While I will > resort to wrap ties (but not for CV joints) I don’t feel they offer the > sealing "power" of the (odd name you Yanks have chosen) keystone clamps. > Don’t forget that the splines on the shaft have been coated to reduce > friction, anyway (too bad it doesn’t stand up a little better). I will admit > that I long for the days of greasable slip yokes, but we all have to admit > that newer vehicles are very good when we don’t exceed their design > parameters (something we used to be able to do with wild abandon). > We need to temper some of the things we do lest we run into ‘MIF’ – > Maintenance Induce Failure….. > — > Jim Warman > >Oh I forgot another interesting story > >When it became time to do the 30,000 mile check on my Explorer, I went to > my > >selling dealer to get all the various lubricants that were specified in > the > >manual and the metal keystone clamps for the driveshafts. The parts > >department said they did not have any of the stuff on hand and would have > to > >order it for me. > >I asked what they use in the shop then. > >"We just use grease. We have a big drum of it," the guy told me. And for > the > >driveshafts? They use plastic zip ties. > >So again, it is very hard to get stuff done to spec. I wouldn’t doubt > that > >someone like Jim Warman does things the way they should be done, but such > a > >mechanic is hard to find in my experience. Of course, it may be that > generic > >grease and zip ties are just fine, but I like to do what the manual and > TSBs > >say, like using silicon gel on the brake caliper slide rails instead of > >grease. I wonder how many independent repair shops do that. > There’s what Ford tells you, and there’s what can be done. > Two different things > Look in your Owners MAnual, and it also tells you to use Motorcraft > oil. > Zip ties do the job as well as what Ford sells. > If the grease in the barrel meets Ford’s specs, it works just fine.It > isn’t necessary for each and every maintenance item to have Ford’s > name on the packaging. > >Regards, > >Anthony Giorgianni > >Regards, > >Anthony Giorgianni > >> That’s of course your choice BD..I was only being jocular, in part, and > I > >> admit I overdo it with my 92 Explorer. > >> But I did go with a friend to a Jiffy Lube on Long Island last summer > to > >> change the oil on her Pathfinder. I was appalled by their lack of > >knowledge. > >> They tried to sell her a variety of services, including a tire > rotation. I > >> asked them for the setting they would use to torque the lugnuts. None > of > >> them had any idea what I was talking about. They said I needed to talk > to > >> the manager. He had no idea either. > >> Four of them stood around me while I explained what that is and why it > is > >> important. I even took the owners manual out of the Pathfinder and > showed > >> them. > >> "You’re supposed to do that?" the manager asked. "They never told us > >> anything about that." He took me out to his older Blazer, telling me > how > >> proud he was of it and how he was going to go to Sears, get a torque > >wrench > >> and check his wheels right after work. > >> I’m thinking: how many warped rotors had to be replaced because of > these > >> guys? And they charged their customers for privilege of messing up > their > >> cars. > >> The oil change is the time when someone with knowledge needs to look > over > >> the vehicle generally. It seems to me that if the guys at Jiffy Lube > >really > >> had the experience they need to work on vehicles properly, they > wouldn’t > >be > >> working at Jiffy Lube. Also, I wonder if they will bother to find out > what > >> type of oil your Explorer uses and whether they will have it. I am > pretty > >> sure Ford has gone to 5-20 on the V8 (not on the 4.0). I would watch > them > >> and try to verify that they are putting the right stuff in. As a > consumer > >> journalist for many years, I received a fair number of complaints about > >> problems at fast-change oil places. They have included examples of > filters > >> and oil plugs falling off afterwards and the wrong filter being used. > On > >the > >> other hand, maybe because of my background, I’m too cautious. > >> Maybe that’s the same reason I don’t like anyone working on my truck. > I > >> remember the time I had a Ford dealership do warranty work. I asked > them > >to > >> follow the fastener torque settings in the TSB. > >> "Look Buddy, I’m going to be honest with you," the repair shop manager > >said, > >> "we don’t do that. We use impact wrenches." Then they complain that I > >don’t > >> take my truck there for service (I should add that he said they DO use > >> torque wrenches for lugnuts – probably the Rotunda tool for the impact > >> wrench – and for certain engine work. I don’t doubt that they do.) > >> Anyway, given these experiences, given the work I do where I hear all > the > >> stuff that goes wrong so often, I guess I’m just jaded. > >> Good luck with your new truck. > >> Regards, > >> Anthony Giorgianni > >> > First of all, I changed my own oil when I was a teenager and WOULD > NEVER > >> > EVER DO IT AGAIN myself. The extra $10 (beyond the cost of buying the > >oil > >> > and filter myself) is WELL WORTH it to me. The "sense of > satisfaction" > >can > >> > be saved for something more important in life. > >> > Second of all, as I reported here earlier, my experience with Jiffy > Lube > >> has > >> > been pretty good. As with independents and with Ford (and even Lexus) > >> > dealers, you DO have to watch them and verify everything they do. > That > >> being > >> > said, I find Jiffy Lube to be quick, convenient and a reasonable > >> maintenance > >> > experience. > >> > Finally, as to letting people touch vehicles with 10 foot poles, > well, I > >> > don’t like 10 foot poles either. But we’re talking A VEHICLE here, > not > >> open > >> > heart surgery. Stuff can happen, but most reasonable, attentive > owners > >can > >> > get reasonable attentive repair/maintenance experiences at the usual > >> places. > >> > It’s just a car…not a religion. > >> <snip> > — > Bill > Replace "g" with "a" > Experience is what you get when you expected something else.
Response:
>Thank you for the response, Bill ><snip> > Zip ties do the job as well as what Ford sells. >I can’t think of a reason why one couldn’t use zip ties. But I also have to >ask myself: If that’s he case, why didn’t Ford put zip ties on the boots >when they built the truck? I don’t have answer for that. So I use what Ford >did initially.
Because Ford doesn’t get any money when you use zip ties. Never underestimate the power of money! 
— Bill Replace "g" with "a" Experience is what you get when you expected something else.
Response:
Interesting idea, Bill. But I don’t think they uses keystone clamps instead of zip ties during manufacture just to add a few buck to the price of what was a $20,000 vehicle. I mean if it were the case, maybe by using zip ties, they could have charged a mere $19,980 and sold more vehicles. I could be wrong, of course. Perhaps I misplaced a decimal point in my supply/demand/price calculations! Regards, Anthony Giorgianni
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Thank you for the response, Bill ><snip> >> Zip ties do the job as well as what Ford sells. >I can’t think of a reason why one couldn’t use zip ties. But I also have to >ask myself: If that’s he case, why didn’t Ford put zip ties on the boots >when they built the truck? I don’t have answer for that. So I use what Ford >did initially. > Because Ford doesn’t get any money when you use zip ties. > Never underestimate the power of money! > — > Bill > Replace "g" with "a" > Experience is what you get when you expected something else.
Response:
By the way, Jim "Keystone" isn’t a Yank thing. It is the term Ford uses in the 92 Explorer/Aerostar/Ranger manual for these clamps. I imagine it refers to those little raised buttons that hook into the holes when you crimp ‘em. It is an odd term, though. Regards, Anthony Giorgianni <snip> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For Anthony et al, my personal take is that if the rubber bellows on the > shafts have not been breached, I will leave well enough alone. While I > will > resort to wrap ties (but not for CV joints) I don’t feel they offer the > sealing "power" of the (odd name you Yanks have chosen) keystone clamps. > Don’t forget that the splines on the shaft have been coated to reduce > friction, anyway (too bad it doesn’t stand up a little better). I will > admit > that I long for the days of greasable slip yokes, but we all have to admit > that newer vehicles are very good when we don’t exceed their design > parameters (something we used to be able to do with wild abandon). > We need to temper some of the things we do lest we run into ‘MIF’ – > Maintenance Induce Failure….. > — > Jim Warman > > >Oh I forgot another interesting story > > >When it became time to do the 30,000 mile check on my Explorer, I went > to > my > > >selling dealer to get all the various lubricants that were specified in > the > > >manual and the metal keystone clamps for the driveshafts. The parts > > >department said they did not have any of the stuff on hand and would > have > to > > >order it for me. > > >I asked what they use in the shop then. > > >"We just use grease. We have a big drum of it," the guy told me. And > for > the > > >driveshafts? They use plastic zip ties. > > >So again, it is very hard to get stuff done to spec. I wouldn’t doubt > that > > >someone like Jim Warman does things the way they should be done, but > such > a > > >mechanic is hard to find in my experience. Of course, it may be that > generic > > >grease and zip ties are just fine, but I like to do what the manual and > TSBs > > >say, like using silicon gel on the brake caliper slide rails instead of > > >grease. I wonder how many independent repair shops do that. > > There’s what Ford tells you, and there’s what can be done. > > Two different things > > Look in your Owners MAnual, and it also tells you to use Motorcraft > > oil. > > Zip ties do the job as well as what Ford sells. > > If the grease in the barrel meets Ford’s specs, it works just fine.It > > isn’t necessary for each and every maintenance item to have Ford’s > > name on the packaging. > > >Regards, > > >Anthony Giorgianni > > >Regards, > > >Anthony Giorgianni > > >> That’s of course your choice BD..I was only being jocular, in part, > and > I > > >> admit I overdo it with my 92 Explorer. > > >> But I did go with a friend to a Jiffy Lube on Long Island last summer > to > > >> change the oil on her Pathfinder. I was appalled by their lack of > > >knowledge. > > >> They tried to sell her a variety of services, including a tire > rotation. I > > >> asked them for the setting they would use to torque the lugnuts. None > of > > >> them had any idea what I was talking about. They said I needed to > talk > to > > >> the manager. He had no idea either. > > >> Four of them stood around me while I explained what that is and why > it > is > > >> important. I even took the owners manual out of the Pathfinder and > showed > > >> them. > > >> "You’re supposed to do that?" the manager asked. "They never told us > > >> anything about that." He took me out to his older Blazer, telling me > how > > >> proud he was of it and how he was going to go to Sears, get a torque > > >wrench > > >> and check his wheels right after work. > > >> I’m thinking: how many warped rotors had to be replaced because of > these > > >> guys? And they charged their customers for privilege of messing up > their > > >> cars. > > >> The oil change is the time when someone with knowledge needs to look > over > > >> the vehicle generally. It seems to me that if the guys at Jiffy Lube > > >really > > >> had the experience they need to work on vehicles properly, they > wouldn’t > > >be > > >> working at Jiffy Lube. Also, I wonder if they will bother to find out > what > > >> type of oil your Explorer uses and whether they will have it. I am > pretty > > >> sure Ford has gone to 5-20 on the V8 (not on the 4.0). I would watch > them > > >> and try to verify that they are putting the right stuff in. As a > consumer > > >> journalist for many years, I received a fair number of complaints > about > > >> problems at fast-change oil places. They have included examples of > filters > > >> and oil plugs falling off afterwards and the wrong filter being used. > On > > >the > > >> other hand, maybe because of my background, I’m too cautious. > > >> Maybe that’s the same reason I don’t like anyone working on my > truck. > I > > >> remember the time I had a Ford dealership do warranty work. I asked > them > > >to > > >> follow the fastener torque settings in the TSB. > > >> "Look Buddy, I’m going to be honest with you," the repair shop > manager > > >said, > > >> "we don’t do that. We use impact wrenches." Then they complain that I > > >don’t > > >> take my truck there for service (I should add that he said they DO > use > > >> torque wrenches for lugnuts – probably the Rotunda tool for the > impact > > >> wrench – and for certain engine work. I don’t doubt that they do.) > > >> Anyway, given these experiences, given the work I do where I hear all > the > > >> stuff that goes wrong so often, I guess I’m just jaded. > > >> Good luck with your new truck. > > >> Regards, > > >> Anthony Giorgianni > > >> > First of all, I changed my own oil when I was a teenager and WOULD > NEVER > > >> > EVER DO IT AGAIN myself. The extra $10 (beyond the cost of buying > the > > >oil > > >> > and filter myself) is WELL WORTH it to me. The "sense of > satisfaction" > > >can > > >> > be saved for something more important in life. > > >> > Second of all, as I reported here earlier, my experience with Jiffy > Lube > > >> has > > >> > been pretty good. As with independents and with Ford (and even > Lexus) > > >> > dealers, you DO have to watch them and verify everything they do. > That > > >> being > > >> > said, I find Jiffy Lube to be quick, convenient and a reasonable > > >> maintenance > > >> > experience. > > >> > Finally, as to letting people touch vehicles with 10 foot poles, > well, I > > >> > don’t like 10 foot poles either. But we’re talking A VEHICLE here, > not > > >> open > > >> > heart surgery. Stuff can happen, but most reasonable, attentive > owners > > >can > > >> > get reasonable attentive repair/maintenance experiences at the > usual > > >> places. > > >> > It’s just a car…not a religion. > > >> <snip> > > — > > Bill > > Replace "g" with "a" > > Experience is what you get when you expected something else.
Response:
>First of all, I changed my own oil when I was a teenager and WOULD NEVER >EVER DO IT AGAIN myself. The extra $10 (beyond the cost of buying the oil >and filter myself) is WELL WORTH it to me. The "sense of satisfaction" can >be saved for something more important in life.
Satisfaction has nothing to do with it. It is the aggravation of making an appointment, having some high school dropout work on your truck, and the risk of your $30,000+ investment being scratched, damaged etc. Spending $10 more does not make it worth it. >Second of all, as I reported here earlier, my experience with Jiffy Lube has >been pretty good. As with independents and with Ford (and even Lexus) >dealers, you DO have to watch them and verify everything they do. That being >said, I find Jiffy Lube to be quick, convenient and a reasonable >maintenance >experience.
All I can say is everytime I left Jiffy Lube, there was a problem with my car. I agree on the dealerships, but you should not have to go there in the first place for an oil change. The dealers are there for warranty problems, and other problems that a regular mechanic would not be qualified to fix. >Finally, as to letting people touch vehicles with 10 foot poles, well, I >don’t like 10 foot poles either. But we’re talking A VEHICLE here, not open >heart surgery. Stuff can happen, but most reasonable, attentive owners can >get reasonable attentive repair/maintenance experiences at the usual
places.It’s just a car…not a religion. Maybe not a religion, but it’s a way of life.
Response:
Oh replacement parts – yes, keystone clamps definitely are more expensive than zip ties – and as far as I know, the only easy place to get them is from Ford. But I bet they are available elsewhere, and for less. A good question. I can’t believe Ford would use ‘em though just to reap the benefits of selling them as replacements. Rather, I think it probably has more to do with what Jim Warman says – they probably make a better seal. Come to think of it, that may be especially important on an SUV, where you might be going through a lot of water and muck and stuff. Hey, I bet that’s IT! Amazing what can happen when I take the time to put two and two together in my head. ) Regards, Anthony Giorgianni
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Interesting idea, Bill. But I don’t think they uses keystone clamps instead >of zip ties during manufacture just to add a few buck to the price of what >was a $20,000 vehicle. I mean if it were the case, maybe by using zip ties, >they could have charged a mere $19,980 and sold more vehicles. I could be >wrong, of course. Perhaps I misplaced a decimal point in my >supply/demand/price calculations! > I think he refers to the replacement parts market. Probably more > markup on keystone clamps. > Of course, maybe they DO work better!?!?! > Alan Moorman
Response:
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